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welcome to the skeptic zone the podcast

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from Australia for science and reason

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yuria hosts Richard Saunders and Stefan

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hello Richard hello Stefan Stefan it's a

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bit crowded in the old skeptic zone

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studios today it certainly is I've got

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my back to you and everything because

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we're using separate microphones and

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we're all packed in here we're packed it

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we have a special guest for the

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introduction Maynard oh i'm sorry i'm

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wearing my big pants that reduces the

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room available in the area I thought

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they went out of fashion but there you

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go actually hammer them quantum pants

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and a bit like the TARDIS that's all I

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can say now we joined by Maynard today

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because we're recording and it's

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Australia Day so a big salute to

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Australia everybody the 26 of January

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this is episode number 223 by the way

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but we're all here we've got some other

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friends in the back room hello friends

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there we go we're here to record our

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secret project we've got Bananarama in

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the room with us Oh on your t-shirt I

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know I'm wearing a t-shirt they've just

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sounded like Bananarama again let's try

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it again hello everybody bananarama

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amazing the people who appear on the

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skeptic zone yes we're here to record

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our secret project but before we do all

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that of course we're going to talk tell

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everybody what's on the show today yeah

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Richard um what he saw the show today

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because I'll be able so engrossed in

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this little project I don't even know

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what's going on anymore we've got an

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interview with a very dear friend of

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mine Pamela gay the astronomer Pamela

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gay who's going to tell us about stars

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and planets and her recent adventures in

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the universe wasn't that an Orchestral

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Manoeuvres in the Dark song I think it

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was as a b-side mala gay did it instead

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we hammer lagane oh Emily sorry sorry

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mum looks big of strange things within

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Stefan studio then listen to Pamela gay

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and he's got a whole bunch of care sets

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over there and it's the greatest

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collection of haircut 100 and Spandau

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Ballet I've ever seen in cassatt form

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tears for fears of solid I have never

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seen so many cassettes racked up Stefan

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that is impressive anyway after my chat

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with Pamela gave its dr. Rachel reports

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talking about false balance our false

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balance a balance I know all about that

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do you you've heard my report so I have

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a zero reports very false balance there

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very interesting of course to do with

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the anti-vaccination lobby crowd

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gang group look this many times I've

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been involved in something and the

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vaccination is just come up and there's

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been talk or there's been talk or

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there's been or any issue really whether

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they try and achieve a balance and

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they're not really thinking about

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whether they're actually achieving a

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balance or they're just getting extra

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people to talk on the same topic from

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ideas that really don't have any merit I

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couldn't have put it any better myself

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may not it's happened a few times in

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fact there's actually an editorial

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passage in the ABC code of practice all

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involving balance and false balance I

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suggest you look it up I don't know what

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section it's in I suspect it's somewhere

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after 3.2 because they're that relates

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to accuracy again the inside word from

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Maynard folks and a round off the show

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Maynard of course you're back in

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Melbourne talking to Warren Burnett from

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in biggin books warm yet a great guy in

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big in books is great we find out where

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the word in biggin comes from in the

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first place during this interview and

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also while I was interviewing him and

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this will be something so the older

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Melbourne listeners a member of

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Melbourne band expand the bachelors from

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Prague walk past who came in and just

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start saying hello to me so we had to

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cut that bit out of the interview and

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then I had a great chat to warn about

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why he does what he does I mean come on

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earning a bookshop in a 21st century is

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is a tough endeavour it is but it's a

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great interview and in Bigham books is a

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fantastic book shop in fact why you were

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there James Randi pulled the trick on

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you he did and he also did this magic

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thing as well where he he he told me to

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pick a book from the shelf we need a

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bomb tishner book from the shelf and

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open a page that I chose and read the

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first word and he knew what that first

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sentence was incredible and it's called

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the book trick in magic circles and the

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thing is there's a number of ways you

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can do it I suspected you were involved

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in a Richard you suspected that at a

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time but i can tell you sincerely I was

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just there as an innocent bystander

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taking photographs I had no idea that

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that trick was coming but it's a great

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trick I've got no idea how I did it he

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could've done a couple different ways I

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haven't even bothered to look up on the

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net because for me I want to be amazed

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look I think the expression it's fun to

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be fooled and I was fun being fooled it

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was great and and I've got bad farmer

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there i bought the book bad farmer d-day

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a good one oh yeah yeah

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oh that reminds me that timer you

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tricked me with the the card trick

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Richard where I was totally full but I

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was on bad farmer at that stage oh

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really yeah so he only had two cards or

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when you pick a card it's wrong the

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first time and then it's amazing you've

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got it the second time the only way to

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do magic folks Stefan I think we better

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get on with it yes we'd better get on

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with the show and because we're really

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engrossed in this project so let's just

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do the show and then we can get on and

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do this magic realism let's all sit back

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now why do we all sit back now we'll

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have some of this lovely Stefan cold

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water you've poured for us in the studio

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you'll all enjoy the skeptic zone and

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then we'll get on with the project it's

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all right for you i'm actually going to

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have a drink of Bananarama a band named

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after a drink you gotta love that what

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and joining me on the line from

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wonderfully cool cold crisp snowy and

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did I said mention cool Edwardsville

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Illinois Pamela gay hello Pamela hello

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Richard how are you doing I'm doing okay

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apart from the fact that it's stinking

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hot in the Sydney and high humidity but

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the only good thing is um it makes the

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beach rather attractive but apart from

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that I think I'd rather swap with you I

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you know we we have this strange

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combination of our first flowers are

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starting to come up but we're also still

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getting smell so it's an interesting

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time of the year where Mother Nature

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doesn't know what it should be and

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sometimes I wonder pamer if you know

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what you should be away you should be I

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noticed that you do an awful lot of

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traveling it's quite scary I I do it's

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really quite amazing at times I but what

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I'm doing is working to travel the world

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and build a community of people who are

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learning and doing science together and

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we meet in the real world and then we

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take what we're doing online and keep

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the journey of exploration going that's

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very exciting and I know you're a woman

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who really does use the internet

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probably to its fullest extent or as

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much as you possibly can can you tell

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our audience a little bit about your

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internet internet activities including

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these google hangouts yes so just like

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you I got my start in some ways with

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podcasting and as the technology is

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changed we've gotten to do more and more

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amazing things and most recently Google

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and Google Plus launched what's called

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google hangouts on air and it's this

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amazing free technology that allows up

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to 10 different people to gather via

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video conferencing software but it's

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smart software that will naturally go

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from one person to another that enables

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screen sharing and has many other

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additional features and

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on week we can take this video

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conversation that we're generating and

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we can share it out to the world via

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YouTube live and and reusing this to do

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things like every Sunday evening we get

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together a bunch of amateur astronomers

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with telescopes and we hold a star party

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where we invite people to look through

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telescopes with us and just explore the

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sky that's a that's rather exciting

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stuff I'm sure that those hangouts must

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be very popular it's really amazing how

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many people we get joining us and we're

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looking to take this from not just

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several hundred people gathering around

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to look through the telescopes but we

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also stream out special events we did

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live coverage of Mars Curiosity Lander

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while landing we we've covered the

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transit of Venus and as we move into the

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future we're working to work more and

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more with NASA and other missions to

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help find ways for people to stay up to

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date and what's going on in astronomy

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well that's it's one of the most

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interesting areas of science I think

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I've always loved astronomy and it's

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it's a nice time occasionally of course

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with with skepticism especially when we

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think back and our mutual friend dr.

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Phil Plait was certainly involved

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heavily in this in criticizing a lot of

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the silly myths about the moon landing

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or the moon landing hoax the moon

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landing never happened and that sort of

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thing and you're a very popular

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presenter at many skeptical conventions

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yourself in fact the last time I saw you

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I think was at the amazing meeting in

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Las Vegas it was and one of the things

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that unfortunately a lot of people don't

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get to experience is someone talking to

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them about science who's talking from

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the perspective of love rather than

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talking from the perspective of must

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must teach you all of these specific

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concepts for your next exam and I try to

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get to speak from the perspective of

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this is something that I'm passionate

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about let me share my passion with you

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and because of that I've gotten to go to

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be amazing meeting I've even gotten to

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visit you down there and I

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jelly ever would be amazed and leading

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was down there and it's open the door

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for me to say not only here's the

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science that i love but also here's how

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you can be part of doing the science i

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love and we've launched recently me Phil

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Plait you just mentioned Fraser Cain and

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many others noisy astronomer bald

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astronomer we want to say it called

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cosmic west where we were to take this

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audience of people that we garner from

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these conventions and bring them online

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with us and invite them to help us look

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through data from a variety of different

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NASA missions and find the

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scientifically interesting features in

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the middle of vast plains of craters of

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great long stretches of volcanic tubes

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that stretch across the services of a

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variety of rocky worlds within our solar

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system that's so interesting and I think

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relatively recently I seem to remember

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is I think it was dr. Phil Plait posted

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up a picture or some information about a

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double impact crater on the moon which

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was so fascinating yes and and that's

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that's the cool thing about so much of

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this is I were still learning things

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you're still discovering things and that

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double crater that was one of those

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moments where a broken comment or a

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shattered asteroid and its orbit around

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our Sun well its orbit happen to just

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intervene with the surface of the moon

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and so you see this set of craters one

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next to another created by a broken

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object getting even more broken up as it

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hits them in isn't that interesting and

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it's just beyond our wildest

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imaginations what even on the moon what

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is waiting for us to there to be

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discovered and what we're doing now is

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we're working to find as scientifically

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interesting places that someday we'll be

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able to go visit maybe not you and I

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maybe it will be the next generation or

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maybe it'll just be such a rare number

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of people that that it's going to be ten

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other people and other of us or part of

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that

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but but we're finding those places today

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that in tomorrows tomorrow someone is

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going to go and stand and pick up a rock

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and explore it for us absolutely and I

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guess if we can't go there pamela at

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least we can see very rich images and

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00:12:38,960 --> 00:12:36,779
hopefully you know very detailed almost

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00:12:40,519 --> 00:12:38,970
virtual reality of these places I would

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00:12:42,230 --> 00:12:40,529
find that exciting I would find it

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exciting to walk across a virtual

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00:12:46,460 --> 00:12:44,519
reality simulation of the moon which was

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perfect to the nearest millimeter or

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00:12:51,829 --> 00:12:48,389
something like that and we're actually

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getting to the ability to do things sort

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00:12:58,569 --> 00:12:55,259
of like that with with Mars the Mars

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Curiosity Lander it has a set of eyes

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00:13:03,079 --> 00:13:00,990
separated much like our own human eyes

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are separated one from the other and

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00:13:08,989 --> 00:13:06,120
using stereoscopic imagery that's been

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00:13:11,600 --> 00:13:08,999
sent back to us from the red planet we

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00:13:14,509 --> 00:13:11,610
can ride along with the rover looking

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through its eyes and see that 3d reality

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00:13:20,809 --> 00:13:17,610
that stretches around us that virtual

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future is coming and there's actually a

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00:13:25,400 --> 00:13:22,230
youtube video that is put together

325
00:13:27,829 --> 00:13:25,410
during the hackfest at the american

326
00:13:30,439 --> 00:13:27,839
astronomical society is meaning this

327
00:13:34,220 --> 00:13:30,449
year that will allow you with with red

328
00:13:36,889 --> 00:13:34,230
blue 3d glasses too well right along and

329
00:13:39,679 --> 00:13:36,899
see that during the village of Mars

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00:13:41,150 --> 00:13:39,689
that's exciting who knows pamela maybe

331
00:13:42,619 --> 00:13:41,160
we can invent a new name for this

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00:13:47,090 --> 00:13:42,629
technology all why don't know we could

333
00:13:48,739 --> 00:13:47,100
call it the holodeck email i'm all for

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00:13:51,290 --> 00:13:48,749
that happening and the sooner the better

335
00:13:53,179 --> 00:13:51,300
and not only do I want that holodeck

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00:13:55,489 --> 00:13:53,189
that allows you to go in and immerse

337
00:13:57,410 --> 00:13:55,499
yourself in a virtual world but when I'm

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00:14:00,290 --> 00:13:57,420
waiting for is the holodeck that allows

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00:14:02,269 --> 00:14:00,300
me from my computer and you from yours

340
00:14:05,179 --> 00:14:02,279
to join one another in a virtual

341
00:14:08,290 --> 00:14:05,189
collaborative space where we can conjure

342
00:14:11,059 --> 00:14:08,300
up the virtual whiteboard and work

343
00:14:14,059 --> 00:14:11,069
simulated humans is simulated human at

344
00:14:15,889 --> 00:14:14,069
building a real teacher had just boggles

345
00:14:17,720 --> 00:14:15,899
the mind doesn't and i think i was i

346
00:14:20,780 --> 00:14:17,730
sent you a little message the other day

347
00:14:22,309 --> 00:14:20,790
saying how nice it would be something

348
00:14:24,169 --> 00:14:22,319
that you and I have never done you've

349
00:14:26,780 --> 00:14:24,179
never taken me out away from the lights

350
00:14:28,170 --> 00:14:26,790
and said let me show you some of my

351
00:14:31,350 --> 00:14:28,180
stars and i think that

352
00:14:33,240 --> 00:14:31,360
be quite a wonderful experience you know

353
00:14:35,220 --> 00:14:33,250
Richard some of the best stars to be

354
00:14:37,290 --> 00:14:35,230
seen are actually down in your part of

355
00:14:39,570 --> 00:14:37,300
the world so this one's on you to find a

356
00:14:41,639 --> 00:14:39,580
new way to bring me back down under so

357
00:14:43,920 --> 00:14:41,649
that well maybe this time we can escape

358
00:14:47,510 --> 00:14:43,930
the confines of Sydney and go out and

359
00:14:50,610 --> 00:14:47,520
look up at the amazing southern skies oh

360
00:14:52,320 --> 00:14:50,620
the man who does the voice overs for the

361
00:14:54,090 --> 00:14:52,330
skeptic zone a guy called Jim Wilshire

362
00:14:56,190 --> 00:14:54,100
who does the introductions as hello

363
00:15:00,540 --> 00:14:56,200
welcome to the skeptics and he lives on

364
00:15:02,790 --> 00:15:00,550
a farm down in near Aubrey which is way

365
00:15:04,650 --> 00:15:02,800
out in the countryside when I visit him

366
00:15:07,139 --> 00:15:04,660
from time to time and I walk outside at

367
00:15:10,530 --> 00:15:07,149
night there is no light pollution it's

368
00:15:13,680 --> 00:15:10,540
just extraordinary just beautiful

369
00:15:16,440 --> 00:15:13,690
beautiful seeing conditions and and the

370
00:15:20,400 --> 00:15:16,450
amazing thing is that in those dark

371
00:15:22,949 --> 00:15:20,410
places on those spring nights when the

372
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Milky Way is overhead and the large and

373
00:15:27,900 --> 00:15:25,779
small magellanic clouds are off to the

374
00:15:31,139 --> 00:15:27,910
side like someone has taken a bit from

375
00:15:33,269 --> 00:15:31,149
the Milky Way just tossed it away on

376
00:15:35,610 --> 00:15:33,279
those nights we can really see the

377
00:15:37,829 --> 00:15:35,620
diversity of what our sky has to offer

378
00:15:39,900 --> 00:15:37,839
to pee right into star forming regions

379
00:15:42,510 --> 00:15:39,910
like the create great cream in the

380
00:15:45,540 --> 00:15:42,520
beulah as as we see the disks of our

381
00:15:48,810 --> 00:15:45,550
disk of our own galaxy in the messed up

382
00:15:51,180 --> 00:15:48,820
religions of those two by black clouds

383
00:15:53,460 --> 00:15:51,190
that the sky down there just has so much

384
00:15:56,490 --> 00:15:53,470
to offer and and let's let's never

385
00:16:00,600 --> 00:15:56,500
forget the dark expanses of dust that

386
00:16:02,460 --> 00:16:00,610
make the MU constellation that got named

387
00:16:04,019 --> 00:16:02,470
because of a little critter that well

388
00:16:07,230 --> 00:16:04,029
walks around in the outback of your

389
00:16:10,380 --> 00:16:07,240
country not so little and one thing that

390
00:16:13,620 --> 00:16:10,390
I I take advantage of in the last few

391
00:16:16,230 --> 00:16:13,630
years and it's very few years recently

392
00:16:18,870 --> 00:16:16,240
are these interesting apps that you have

393
00:16:21,960 --> 00:16:18,880
on various handheld devices like ipad in

394
00:16:25,050 --> 00:16:21,970
like iphone etc which lets you hold your

395
00:16:27,120 --> 00:16:25,060
device up to the sky swing it around and

396
00:16:29,690 --> 00:16:27,130
it'll tell you what you're looking at in

397
00:16:32,760 --> 00:16:29,700
the sky I think that's just marvelous

398
00:16:34,500 --> 00:16:32,770
yeah the star walk app is one of the

399
00:16:36,990 --> 00:16:34,510
ones that I tend to use the most it's

400
00:16:38,910 --> 00:16:37,000
one that actively supported the

401
00:16:39,160 --> 00:16:38,920
international year of astronomy and kind

402
00:16:43,629 --> 00:16:39,170
of

403
00:16:47,019 --> 00:16:43,639
on me over when it did that and the the

404
00:16:49,600 --> 00:16:47,029
the apps they allow us to look up and

405
00:16:52,810 --> 00:16:49,610
not just go wow what is that but to go

406
00:16:55,120 --> 00:16:52,820
wow what is that and find the answer and

407
00:16:58,210 --> 00:16:55,130
it's that ability to understand our

408
00:17:01,900 --> 00:16:58,220
universe that I think makes astronomy so

409
00:17:04,299 --> 00:17:01,910
magical we actually have the ability

410
00:17:06,640 --> 00:17:04,309
through observation and the application

411
00:17:09,400 --> 00:17:06,650
amount to actually with our own minds

412
00:17:11,260 --> 00:17:09,410
working on our own desks to figure out

413
00:17:13,659 --> 00:17:11,270
what that is that we're seeing in the

414
00:17:16,689 --> 00:17:13,669
sky to understand what are the origins

415
00:17:19,299 --> 00:17:16,699
of our universe and predict how our

416
00:17:21,520 --> 00:17:19,309
universe is going to change as well

417
00:17:23,380 --> 00:17:21,530
future generations and pace your

418
00:17:25,299 --> 00:17:23,390
civilizations continue to watch it

419
00:17:27,819 --> 00:17:25,309
through time now of course your love of

420
00:17:31,630 --> 00:17:27,829
all things astronomical is is well known

421
00:17:34,299 --> 00:17:31,640
and your love of podcasting to tell me

422
00:17:36,909 --> 00:17:34,309
how long how long now has astronomy cast

423
00:17:41,230 --> 00:17:36,919
been going oh wow it's really quite

424
00:17:45,570 --> 00:17:41,240
amazing we uh we're coming up on seven

425
00:17:50,110 --> 00:17:45,580
years now really it's we started this in

426
00:17:53,530 --> 00:17:50,120
September of 2006 and and we're still

427
00:17:55,270 --> 00:17:53,540
going strong and it's really been

428
00:17:57,669 --> 00:17:55,280
amazing to get to work with Fraser Cain

429
00:18:00,130 --> 00:17:57,679
the produced over in universe today and

430
00:18:04,450 --> 00:18:00,140
to publish your other of Universe Today

431
00:18:07,270 --> 00:18:04,460
and two together every week be able to

432
00:18:10,380 --> 00:18:07,280
take on new topics and astronomy and I

433
00:18:13,090 --> 00:18:10,390
don't see our show ever ending because

434
00:18:15,039 --> 00:18:13,100
astronomy itself this is constantly

435
00:18:16,930 --> 00:18:15,049
changing we're constantly learning new

436
00:18:19,539 --> 00:18:16,940
things and over time we're going to get

437
00:18:22,330 --> 00:18:19,549
to go back and change some of the shows

438
00:18:26,080 --> 00:18:22,340
that we've done and redo them as as our

439
00:18:28,260 --> 00:18:26,090
understanding gets redone as well that's

440
00:18:30,520 --> 00:18:28,270
very exciting and since one of the the

441
00:18:32,830 --> 00:18:30,530
podcasts I started listening to a long

442
00:18:36,010 --> 00:18:32,840
time ago well certainly of course before

443
00:18:41,110 --> 00:18:36,020
the skeptic zone podcast started started

444
00:18:43,270 --> 00:18:41,120
up and since I think either episode 10

445
00:18:46,360 --> 00:18:43,280
episode to pamorah of the skeptic zone

446
00:18:48,730 --> 00:18:46,370
I've been plugging astronomy cast oh I

447
00:18:50,560 --> 00:18:48,740
hope I get a gold star for that you

448
00:18:52,740 --> 00:18:50,570
certainly do you you've been a friend

449
00:18:55,560 --> 00:18:52,750
with the show for a long time

450
00:18:59,640 --> 00:18:55,570
I I remember that first dragon con with

451
00:19:01,920 --> 00:18:59,650
when we met and it's it's great that we

452
00:19:03,720 --> 00:19:01,930
work in a field where we can continue to

453
00:19:06,480 --> 00:19:03,730
support one another through the years

454
00:19:08,940 --> 00:19:06,490
and this is part of the reason that I've

455
00:19:11,070 --> 00:19:08,950
stayed with me immediate or so long and

456
00:19:13,080 --> 00:19:11,080
why I've continued to find new ways to

457
00:19:16,290 --> 00:19:13,090
evolve what I need to match the

458
00:19:18,170 --> 00:19:16,300
constantly changing technologies it's

459
00:19:20,820 --> 00:19:18,180
because I get to work with people who

460
00:19:23,130 --> 00:19:20,830
actively say how can I help how can we

461
00:19:25,620 --> 00:19:23,140
support each other how how did we make

462
00:19:28,140 --> 00:19:25,630
the world better through science through

463
00:19:30,480 --> 00:19:28,150
skepticism using new media to support

464
00:19:32,970 --> 00:19:30,490
one another and support society it was

465
00:19:35,160 --> 00:19:32,980
the first time I was at dragoncon in

466
00:19:39,120 --> 00:19:35,170
atlanta georgia i think that was 2008

467
00:19:41,430 --> 00:19:39,130
and i was a lamb in the woods I didn't

468
00:19:43,650 --> 00:19:41,440
know what was going on it was completely

469
00:19:45,870 --> 00:19:43,660
incredible that all these people running

470
00:19:49,530 --> 00:19:45,880
around in costumes and the high heat and

471
00:19:51,300 --> 00:19:49,540
the bizarre goings-on but i think i was

472
00:19:53,970 --> 00:19:51,310
introduced to you by a phil plait so

473
00:19:56,310 --> 00:19:53,980
that was a very nice memory you know

474
00:19:58,200 --> 00:19:56,320
earlier this evening i actually found a

475
00:20:00,890 --> 00:19:58,210
picture from that year that has the

476
00:20:04,110 --> 00:20:00,900
three of us and i'll have to said that

477
00:20:07,980 --> 00:20:04,120
that's fantastic now Pamela these sites

478
00:20:10,230 --> 00:20:07,990
that you mentioned earlier this the

479
00:20:12,060 --> 00:20:10,240
google activities what's the best place

480
00:20:15,390 --> 00:20:12,070
people can go to check out more about

481
00:20:20,070 --> 00:20:15,400
what you're doing well cosmic west org

482
00:20:23,310 --> 00:20:20,080
is the central area where we go and hug

483
00:20:25,200 --> 00:20:23,320
together all of our various content you

484
00:20:28,290 --> 00:20:25,210
can also find my personal writing at

485
00:20:31,380 --> 00:20:28,300
star shredder calm and follow me on

486
00:20:33,630 --> 00:20:31,390
Twitter or Google+ I'm either star

487
00:20:35,970 --> 00:20:33,640
strata or go but my own name Pamela gay

488
00:20:37,560 --> 00:20:35,980
across all the different media well

489
00:20:40,200 --> 00:20:37,570
Pamela gay I can only wish you

490
00:20:43,380 --> 00:20:40,210
unpolluted skies and good seeing

491
00:20:45,390 --> 00:20:43,390
positions i I'm so glad to be part of

492
00:20:48,030 --> 00:20:45,400
your show and I hope that together we

493
00:21:03,299 --> 00:20:48,040
can build a more skeptical future Thank

494
00:21:07,539 --> 00:21:05,649
astronomy cast takes a facts based

495
00:21:09,430 --> 00:21:07,549
journey through the cosmos as it offers

496
00:21:12,129 --> 00:21:09,440
listeners weekly discussions on

497
00:21:15,009 --> 00:21:12,139
astronomical topics ranging from planets

498
00:21:17,320 --> 00:21:15,019
to cosmology hosted by Fraser Cain of

499
00:21:18,340 --> 00:21:17,330
Universe Today and myself dr. Pamela

500
00:21:21,009 --> 00:21:18,350
gave southern illinois university

501
00:21:22,869 --> 00:21:21,019
edwardsville this show brings the

502
00:21:25,330 --> 00:21:22,879
questions of an avid astronomy lover

503
00:21:27,399 --> 00:21:25,340
directly to an astronomer together

504
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:27,409
Fraser and I explore what is known and

505
00:21:31,690 --> 00:21:28,970
being discovered about the universe

506
00:21:33,789 --> 00:21:31,700
around us join us each week as we take a

507
00:21:44,440 --> 00:21:33,799
fax space journey through the cosmos at

508
00:21:47,080 --> 00:21:44,450
astronomy cast calm now it's time for

509
00:21:49,500 --> 00:21:47,090
dr. Ritchie reports with dr. Rachel

510
00:21:52,080 --> 00:21:49,510
Dunlop

511
00:21:54,240 --> 00:21:52,090
hello listeners and welcome to dr. heo

512
00:21:56,970 --> 00:21:54,250
reports well this week I want to discuss

513
00:21:59,550 --> 00:21:56,980
a false balance which is defined by

514
00:22:02,670 --> 00:21:59,560
wikipedia as a term used to describe a

515
00:22:04,530 --> 00:22:02,680
perceived or real media bias where

516
00:22:05,940 --> 00:22:04,540
journalists present an issue as being

517
00:22:07,950 --> 00:22:05,950
more balanced between opposing

518
00:22:10,590 --> 00:22:07,960
viewpoints than the evidence actually

519
00:22:12,480 --> 00:22:10,600
supports now if that sounds a bit jargon

520
00:22:14,700 --> 00:22:12,490
istic give me a minute and I'll explain

521
00:22:16,830 --> 00:22:14,710
it to you but I want to talk about false

522
00:22:18,540 --> 00:22:16,840
balance this week in the context of

523
00:22:21,330 --> 00:22:18,550
science and medicine reporting in the

524
00:22:23,100 --> 00:22:21,340
mainstream media so false balance has

525
00:22:24,810 --> 00:22:23,110
long been a problem in the mainstream

526
00:22:26,550 --> 00:22:24,820
media particularly when it comes to

527
00:22:29,340 --> 00:22:26,560
stories concerning science and medicine

528
00:22:30,870 --> 00:22:29,350
and it's a curious occurrence since the

529
00:22:32,670 --> 00:22:30,880
most journals will scoff when you

530
00:22:34,920 --> 00:22:32,680
proposed they invite a flat earth or on

531
00:22:37,770 --> 00:22:34,930
to a story about circumnavigating the

532
00:22:40,710 --> 00:22:37,780
globe or a Holocaust denier in stories

533
00:22:42,900 --> 00:22:40,720
about World War two but the parallels to

534
00:22:44,460 --> 00:22:42,910
inviting an anti vector onto a story

535
00:22:48,570 --> 00:22:44,470
about vaccinations for the sake of

536
00:22:50,670 --> 00:22:48,580
balance somehow escapes them of course

537
00:22:52,500 --> 00:22:50,680
this means that anti-vaxxers exploit the

538
00:22:54,200 --> 00:22:52,510
idea of balance by claiming there are

539
00:22:56,190 --> 00:22:54,210
two sides to every story and

540
00:22:59,550 --> 00:22:56,200
disseminating the idea that there is a

541
00:23:01,860 --> 00:22:59,560
vaccine debate well in the interest of

542
00:23:04,770 --> 00:23:01,870
saving time and going over old ground

543
00:23:07,260 --> 00:23:04,780
there is no debate the science is in

544
00:23:10,350 --> 00:23:07,270
vaccines work and the benefits far

545
00:23:12,390 --> 00:23:10,360
outweigh any associated risks but before

546
00:23:15,420 --> 00:23:12,400
anyone bothered to challenge the media

547
00:23:17,370 --> 00:23:15,430
that false balance was bad m'kay the

548
00:23:19,770 --> 00:23:17,380
anti-vaxxers got virtually a free ride

549
00:23:22,050 --> 00:23:19,780
in the Australian media now the

550
00:23:23,940 --> 00:23:22,060
Australian vaccination Network we used

551
00:23:27,150 --> 00:23:23,950
to be fronted by Merrill dory who has

552
00:23:29,430 --> 00:23:27,160
recently retired was a media darling and

553
00:23:31,080 --> 00:23:29,440
they were the go-to people for just

554
00:23:33,720 --> 00:23:31,090
about every story concerning

555
00:23:36,030 --> 00:23:33,730
vaccinations in Australia so juxtaposed

556
00:23:39,810 --> 00:23:36,040
alongside highly qualified experts in

557
00:23:41,760 --> 00:23:39,820
immunology medicine pediatrics this let

558
00:23:43,560 --> 00:23:41,770
legitimacy to Merrill dories opinions

559
00:23:46,050 --> 00:23:43,570
and elevated her to the heights of

560
00:23:48,900 --> 00:23:46,060
expert despite the fact that she has

561
00:23:52,010 --> 00:23:48,910
absolutely no qualifications apart from

562
00:23:54,510 --> 00:23:52,020
a brain which she will happily tell you

563
00:23:56,580 --> 00:23:54,520
now when miss Dorry was described on the

564
00:23:59,040 --> 00:23:56,590
program for the Woodford Folk Festival

565
00:24:02,490 --> 00:23:59,050
several years ago as Australia's leading

566
00:24:03,480 --> 00:24:02,500
expert in vaccination I didn't see her

567
00:24:05,360 --> 00:24:03,490
falling all over her

568
00:24:07,890 --> 00:24:05,370
self to correct this misconception

569
00:24:09,780 --> 00:24:07,900
however something has happened in

570
00:24:13,140 --> 00:24:09,790
Australia over the last few years it has

571
00:24:15,510 --> 00:24:13,150
been very encouraging and slowly a shift

572
00:24:17,880 --> 00:24:15,520
away from false balance with respect to

573
00:24:20,549 --> 00:24:17,890
vaccination stories has begun and

574
00:24:22,410 --> 00:24:20,559
largely during my opinion to a tireless

575
00:24:24,660 --> 00:24:22,420
campaign by a bunch of concerned

576
00:24:26,250 --> 00:24:24,670
citizens who loosely fall under the

577
00:24:29,190 --> 00:24:26,260
umbrella of stop the Australian

578
00:24:31,590 --> 00:24:29,200
vaccination network or si bien so why is

579
00:24:33,180 --> 00:24:31,600
this so important well a recently

580
00:24:34,980 --> 00:24:33,190
published paper which is quite a

581
00:24:37,260 --> 00:24:34,990
preliminary study but in any case is

582
00:24:39,890 --> 00:24:37,270
interesting highlights the reasons why

583
00:24:42,780 --> 00:24:39,900
false balance can actually be dangerous

584
00:24:44,940 --> 00:24:42,790
so using the consistently reported but

585
00:24:47,730 --> 00:24:44,950
thoroughly unsinkable rubber duck of an

586
00:24:49,799 --> 00:24:47,740
autism vaccine link the authors Dixon

587
00:24:52,260 --> 00:24:49,809
and Clark investigated how this

588
00:24:55,610 --> 00:24:52,270
reporting style influences judgments of

589
00:24:58,470 --> 00:24:55,620
a vaccine risk so they randomly assigned

590
00:25:00,720 --> 00:24:58,480
320 undergraduate students to read a

591
00:25:03,660 --> 00:25:00,730
news item presenting either claims both

592
00:25:06,330 --> 00:25:03,670
for or against an autism vaccine link

593
00:25:08,370 --> 00:25:06,340
are purely anti-vaccine vaccines

594
00:25:11,640 --> 00:25:08,380
definitely cause autism article and

595
00:25:13,440 --> 00:25:11,650
there is no link article now

596
00:25:15,120 --> 00:25:13,450
unsurprisingly they reported that the

597
00:25:17,640 --> 00:25:15,130
participants who read the article saying

598
00:25:19,110 --> 00:25:17,650
vaccines cause autism indicated they

599
00:25:20,850 --> 00:25:19,120
would be less likely to have their

600
00:25:22,919 --> 00:25:20,860
children vaccinated in the future and

601
00:25:24,930 --> 00:25:22,929
this observation is supported by other

602
00:25:26,970 --> 00:25:24,940
research showing that viewing an anti

603
00:25:29,549 --> 00:25:26,980
vaccine website for 5 to 10 minutes

604
00:25:32,190 --> 00:25:29,559
increased perceptions of vaccination

605
00:25:35,340 --> 00:25:32,200
risk and decreased perceptions of the

606
00:25:37,380 --> 00:25:35,350
risks of not having vaccines also from

607
00:25:39,480 --> 00:25:37,390
this research more importantly viewing

608
00:25:41,430 --> 00:25:39,490
an anti-vaccine website significantly

609
00:25:44,040 --> 00:25:41,440
decreased intentions to vaccinate in

610
00:25:46,470 --> 00:25:44,050
parents which persisted five months

611
00:25:47,910 --> 00:25:46,480
later and this translated into parents

612
00:25:51,090 --> 00:25:47,920
having their children receive fewer

613
00:25:53,280 --> 00:25:51,100
vaccinations than recommended and indeed

614
00:25:55,320 --> 00:25:53,290
data also shows us that people that get

615
00:25:57,299 --> 00:25:55,330
their information about vaccines purely

616
00:25:59,640 --> 00:25:57,309
from the internet are less likely to

617
00:26:01,860 --> 00:25:59,650
vaccinate their children however what

618
00:26:04,350 --> 00:26:01,870
was more surprising and shocking about

619
00:26:07,260 --> 00:26:04,360
the findings of Dixon and Clark was that

620
00:26:10,230 --> 00:26:07,270
the balanced article produced a stronger

621
00:26:11,790 --> 00:26:10,240
effect than the link only article so let

622
00:26:15,180 --> 00:26:11,800
me just repeat that in case you missed

623
00:26:16,860 --> 00:26:15,190
it the false balance article citing a

624
00:26:17,370 --> 00:26:16,870
possible link between vaccines and

625
00:26:20,070 --> 00:26:17,380
autism

626
00:26:22,320 --> 00:26:20,080
left participants feeling less confident

627
00:26:24,540 --> 00:26:22,330
about the safety of vaccines then the

628
00:26:28,920 --> 00:26:24,550
vaccines definitely cause autism article

629
00:26:30,780 --> 00:26:28,930
Wow so the authors suggested the reasons

630
00:26:33,030 --> 00:26:30,790
for this may be due to false balance

631
00:26:36,300 --> 00:26:33,040
eliciting a stronger perception that

632
00:26:38,310 --> 00:26:36,310
experts are indeed divided or that

633
00:26:40,980 --> 00:26:38,320
experts truly are uncertain whether

634
00:26:43,530 --> 00:26:40,990
vaccines cause autism and of course we

635
00:26:45,870 --> 00:26:43,540
know that they don't so this study

636
00:26:47,910 --> 00:26:45,880
suggests that false balance reporting

637
00:26:49,710 --> 00:26:47,920
with respect to vaccine safety lowers

638
00:26:52,470 --> 00:26:49,720
people's intentions to vaccinate their

639
00:26:54,420 --> 00:26:52,480
children in the future more so than

640
00:26:57,510 --> 00:26:54,430
simple straight up anti-vaccine

641
00:26:59,790 --> 00:26:57,520
reporting so this issue of false balance

642
00:27:01,830 --> 00:26:59,800
was covered extremely well on a recent

643
00:27:05,190 --> 00:27:01,840
episode of australia's media watchdog

644
00:27:07,140 --> 00:27:05,200
program which is called Media Watch now

645
00:27:09,000 --> 00:27:07,150
the segment under scrutiny features

646
00:27:10,980 --> 00:27:09,010
Merle dory commenting on a measles

647
00:27:14,130 --> 00:27:10,990
outbreak and coincidentally quotes her

648
00:27:16,080 --> 00:27:14,140
as saying and quote for vaccinations in

649
00:27:17,850 --> 00:27:16,090
the medical literature have been linked

650
00:27:19,590 --> 00:27:17,860
with the possibility of causing autism

651
00:27:25,140 --> 00:27:19,600
not just the measles mumps rubella

652
00:27:26,820 --> 00:27:25,150
vaccine this makes me so mad I'm told

653
00:27:28,860 --> 00:27:26,830
that this show is required viewing for

654
00:27:31,260 --> 00:27:28,870
all journals and getting a mention is a

655
00:27:34,050 --> 00:27:31,270
black mark against your name such is the

656
00:27:36,360 --> 00:27:34,060
power of media watch the story is a

657
00:27:38,610 --> 00:27:36,370
Smackdown of a report which featured on

658
00:27:40,500 --> 00:27:38,620
when news and was later the subject of

659
00:27:43,140 --> 00:27:40,510
complaints the communications regulator

660
00:27:45,870 --> 00:27:43,150
in the story the host Jonathan Holmes

661
00:27:48,000 --> 00:27:45,880
said but Meryl door is deceptively named

662
00:27:50,010 --> 00:27:48,010
Australian vaccination network is in

663
00:27:52,680 --> 00:27:50,020
fact an obsessively anti-vaccination

664
00:27:54,870 --> 00:27:52,690
pressure group that's immunized itself

665
00:27:57,660 --> 00:27:54,880
against the effect of scientific

666
00:27:59,730 --> 00:27:57,670
evidence dories claim about the medical

667
00:28:04,500 --> 00:27:59,740
literature linking vaccinations and

668
00:28:06,150 --> 00:28:04,510
autism is pure unadulterated baloney now

669
00:28:08,220 --> 00:28:06,160
some people have suggested that this

670
00:28:10,260 --> 00:28:08,230
story functioned as a warning to anyone

671
00:28:12,560 --> 00:28:10,270
else in the media should they foolishly

672
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:12,570
decide to go the false balance route

673
00:28:17,490 --> 00:28:15,370
there are rumors in fact very strong

674
00:28:19,680 --> 00:28:17,500
rumors that some media outlets in

675
00:28:22,260 --> 00:28:19,690
Australia have a complete ban on talking

676
00:28:24,270 --> 00:28:22,270
to ms dory and it will be interesting to

677
00:28:26,520 --> 00:28:24,280
see if this still stands now that she is

678
00:28:28,500 --> 00:28:26,530
no longer the president and spokesperson

679
00:28:30,990 --> 00:28:28,510
in my own experience I've recently

680
00:28:32,880 --> 00:28:31,000
started telling media if they plan to do

681
00:28:35,670 --> 00:28:32,890
one story then they will not get my

682
00:28:37,770 --> 00:28:35,680
participation interestingly when I was

683
00:28:39,960 --> 00:28:37,780
recently asked to go on the primetime

684
00:28:42,330 --> 00:28:39,970
show the project to talk about the

685
00:28:44,940 --> 00:28:42,340
Academy of Sciences immunization booklet

686
00:28:47,910 --> 00:28:44,950
I asked if they planned to also have on

687
00:28:49,740 --> 00:28:47,920
an anti vaxcel the producer told me they

688
00:28:51,300 --> 00:28:49,750
had asked for someone from the anti

689
00:28:54,560 --> 00:28:51,310
backside who had refused to participate

690
00:28:57,780 --> 00:28:54,570
unless they could being interviewed live

691
00:28:59,610 --> 00:28:57,790
now as far as I'm aware the project pre

692
00:29:02,130 --> 00:28:59,620
records all their crosses to allow for

693
00:29:03,750 --> 00:29:02,140
editing but the antioxidant want to be

694
00:29:06,600 --> 00:29:03,760
made to look silly in the editing

695
00:29:09,570 --> 00:29:06,610
process and yes the irony has not

696
00:29:10,920 --> 00:29:09,580
escaped me the producer told me it was

697
00:29:12,780 --> 00:29:10,930
ridiculous that they would expect

698
00:29:15,630 --> 00:29:12,790
special treatment when everyone else is

699
00:29:18,420 --> 00:29:15,640
pre recorded and edited so they opted to

700
00:29:20,700 --> 00:29:18,430
be not included in the show well their

701
00:29:23,010 --> 00:29:20,710
loss i guess i mean the project is

702
00:29:25,200 --> 00:29:23,020
primetime national and watched by a huge

703
00:29:28,770 --> 00:29:25,210
number of people so it's great exposure

704
00:29:32,670 --> 00:29:28,780
for your crackpot ideas are way too oh

705
00:29:34,620 --> 00:29:32,680
yeah so after appearing on the project

706
00:29:36,390 --> 00:29:34,630
again last wednesday and if you want to

707
00:29:38,520 --> 00:29:36,400
see this video you can look at my blog

708
00:29:41,040 --> 00:29:38,530
at the end of this segment to talk about

709
00:29:43,080 --> 00:29:41,050
Melanie's marvelous measles I was

710
00:29:45,150 --> 00:29:43,090
pleasantly surprised to see a thread on

711
00:29:48,600 --> 00:29:45,160
the project's facebook page addressing

712
00:29:50,610 --> 00:29:48,610
precisely the issue of false balance now

713
00:29:52,980 --> 00:29:50,620
a commentator left this comment which

714
00:29:54,930 --> 00:29:52,990
said I'm normally a huge fan of this

715
00:29:57,180 --> 00:29:54,940
show but I was totally disgusted at the

716
00:29:58,950 --> 00:29:57,190
interview reviewing the measles book the

717
00:30:01,050 --> 00:29:58,960
project responded less than half an hour

718
00:30:02,610 --> 00:30:01,060
later are saying we decided that

719
00:30:04,500 --> 00:30:02,620
speaking to someone who actually has

720
00:30:07,500 --> 00:30:04,510
medical training and understands disease

721
00:30:10,290 --> 00:30:07,510
was the way to go the commenter then

722
00:30:12,120 --> 00:30:10,300
says so why didn't you and lists a bunch

723
00:30:14,820 --> 00:30:12,130
of doctors who they claim would have

724
00:30:17,280 --> 00:30:14,830
been more suitable than myself including

725
00:30:19,380 --> 00:30:17,290
dr. Archie Carly Karina's who passed

726
00:30:22,020 --> 00:30:19,390
away last year so I'm not quite sure how

727
00:30:23,910 --> 00:30:22,030
he could have been on the show sometimes

728
00:30:26,010 --> 00:30:23,920
it pays to read what you copy from whale

729
00:30:28,920 --> 00:30:26,020
to you before you paste it into a public

730
00:30:31,200 --> 00:30:28,930
forum the project then responded by

731
00:30:33,540 --> 00:30:31,210
saying anti-vaccination is a fringe

732
00:30:35,640 --> 00:30:33,550
opinion for every five doctors who

733
00:30:38,100 --> 00:30:35,650
oppose vaccinations that there are 95

734
00:30:40,100 --> 00:30:38,110
who support it we are not obliged to

735
00:30:42,600 --> 00:30:40,110
provide equal time and space to

736
00:30:44,430 --> 00:30:42,610
unscientific and dangerous viewpoints

737
00:30:44,770 --> 00:30:44,440
and if you want to find that thread

738
00:30:48,490 --> 00:30:44,780
there's

739
00:30:50,380 --> 00:30:48,500
link on my blog after all the work we've

740
00:30:52,420 --> 00:30:50,390
done in an effort to educate the media

741
00:30:54,880 --> 00:30:52,430
about the dangers of false balance in

742
00:30:57,460 --> 00:30:54,890
vaccination and medical stories perhaps

743
00:30:59,200 --> 00:30:57,470
it is finally paying off of course you

744
00:31:01,300 --> 00:30:59,210
will still find incidences of false

745
00:31:03,360 --> 00:31:01,310
balance in the Australian media but I

746
00:31:05,440 --> 00:31:03,370
like to think that it is improving and

747
00:31:07,030 --> 00:31:05,450
given the latest research it's

748
00:31:09,100 --> 00:31:07,040
especially encouraging to see a

749
00:31:11,680 --> 00:31:09,110
prime-time mainstream commercial

750
00:31:14,350 --> 00:31:11,690
television show take a responsible

751
00:31:15,880 --> 00:31:14,360
Health stance congratulations to the

752
00:31:19,780 --> 00:31:15,890
project and i'll certainly comeback on

753
00:31:21,820 --> 00:31:19,790
any time you want editing included so

754
00:31:23,980 --> 00:31:21,830
you can find this blog post on the

755
00:31:27,040 --> 00:31:23,990
official blog of the skeptic zone at

756
00:31:36,440 --> 00:31:27,050
skeptics book calm and until next time

757
00:31:44,669 --> 00:31:40,320
in a world where the truth is a matter

758
00:31:44,679 --> 00:31:52,560
your messages are a scene for beyond the

759
00:31:58,590 --> 00:31:55,860
and reason is sidelined for magical

760
00:31:58,600 --> 00:32:04,190
only three men stand between the truth

761
00:32:09,659 --> 00:32:07,950
what date is it 787 thing this is

762
00:32:11,310 --> 00:32:09,669
impressive it's a detail system present

763
00:32:15,180 --> 00:32:11,320
they're not their photographs of Chinese

764
00:32:16,409 --> 00:32:15,190
anthem we are not well-received cuz good

765
00:32:18,090 --> 00:32:16,419
God we're fully don't discuss

766
00:32:19,980 --> 00:32:18,100
cryptozoology on the show very often

767
00:32:22,440 --> 00:32:19,990
because we don't know anything about how

768
00:32:24,150 --> 00:32:22,450
the truth the price gets lower and lower

769
00:32:28,770 --> 00:32:24,160
and lower and then he hits a ceiling

770
00:32:30,659 --> 00:32:28,780
it's a ceiling for the ruminal skeptic

771
00:32:37,430 --> 00:32:30,669
to the cave and moses has gifted society

772
00:32:45,310 --> 00:32:42,120
here's main art spooky action at a

773
00:32:50,390 --> 00:32:48,020
well last time I spoke to this guy it

774
00:32:52,399 --> 00:32:50,400
was a convention in Sydney and we're in

775
00:32:53,840 --> 00:32:52,409
the Masonic Hall and it wasn't a Masonic

776
00:32:55,520 --> 00:32:53,850
convention it was actually a skeptics

777
00:32:57,980 --> 00:32:55,530
convention in Sydney but right now I

778
00:32:59,360 --> 00:32:57,990
mean in biggin books which I only

779
00:33:01,340 --> 00:32:59,370
recently found out is named after the

780
00:33:03,380 --> 00:33:01,350
simpsons episode i did not even know it

781
00:33:05,960 --> 00:33:03,390
was a made up word so who are you and

782
00:33:08,480 --> 00:33:05,970
why are you filling in my mind my name

783
00:33:10,520 --> 00:33:08,490
is Warren Burnett and I just dim tempted

784
00:33:13,190 --> 00:33:10,530
to fall with your mind I guess in biggin

785
00:33:15,680 --> 00:33:13,200
was first actually coined in the 1800's

786
00:33:17,360 --> 00:33:15,690
by the way yeah and the simpsons just

787
00:33:19,820 --> 00:33:17,370
ripped something off from i don't think

788
00:33:22,070 --> 00:33:19,830
they knew it's a pretty kind reference

789
00:33:25,250 --> 00:33:22,080
it only appeared the once and it was in

790
00:33:27,350 --> 00:33:25,260
a like a gentleman's miscellany and i

791
00:33:31,700 --> 00:33:27,360
was referring to I think the growing

792
00:33:33,620 --> 00:33:31,710
trends of hobbyists in in in the UK and

793
00:33:36,140 --> 00:33:33,630
this is so did originally mean to make

794
00:33:37,850 --> 00:33:36,150
larger yeah yeah that's right that's

795
00:33:40,490 --> 00:33:37,860
yeah but it only occurred the once but

796
00:33:43,730 --> 00:33:40,500
since then the the Simpsons did it and

797
00:33:47,060 --> 00:33:43,740
we saw it in a string theory paper so

798
00:33:49,370 --> 00:33:47,070
yeah and of course this is a bookshop

799
00:33:52,130 --> 00:33:49,380
for the thinker which means I don't even

800
00:33:53,930 --> 00:33:52,140
know why you're still open that's good

801
00:33:56,000 --> 00:33:53,940
point good point I mean it's looking a

802
00:33:58,010 --> 00:33:56,010
lot of people going on hey I've got to

803
00:34:00,200 --> 00:33:58,020
get to some philosophy right now before

804
00:34:02,690 --> 00:34:00,210
I go watch the vinyl of the voice that's

805
00:34:04,159 --> 00:34:02,700
right and we're here just for them well

806
00:34:06,049 --> 00:34:04,169
we're near the wheeler centre which is

807
00:34:08,720 --> 00:34:06,059
the Melbourne Center for writing

808
00:34:11,089 --> 00:34:08,730
literature and ideas and that was a

809
00:34:14,540 --> 00:34:11,099
pretty intentional move on our behalf to

810
00:34:15,980 --> 00:34:14,550
be near a hub for that already and and

811
00:34:17,419 --> 00:34:15,990
just focus a little bit more on the

812
00:34:19,790 --> 00:34:17,429
sciences because they focus on

813
00:34:21,560 --> 00:34:19,800
literature and humanities we have a

814
00:34:23,599 --> 00:34:21,570
strong science been obviously so we

815
00:34:25,849 --> 00:34:23,609
wanted to sort of add that kind of

816
00:34:27,710 --> 00:34:25,859
balance and it's been working reasonably

817
00:34:29,450 --> 00:34:27,720
well it was let me look times are tough

818
00:34:32,060 --> 00:34:29,460
with a bookshop like when you got people

819
00:34:34,129 --> 00:34:32,070
like coals or came out that can buy the

820
00:34:35,480 --> 00:34:34,139
book cheaper and post it to you for what

821
00:34:38,089 --> 00:34:35,490
you can listen you put on the shelf

822
00:34:40,399 --> 00:34:38,099
that's tough competition yeah the the

823
00:34:42,980 --> 00:34:40,409
big ones are always a problem but we

824
00:34:46,220 --> 00:34:42,990
mostly don't overlap in the subjects

825
00:34:50,240 --> 00:34:46,230
we're carrying so most of the book shops

826
00:34:51,919 --> 00:34:50,250
don't stop our best sellers okay so now

827
00:34:54,230 --> 00:34:51,929
that actually what goes wild and crazy

828
00:34:57,230 --> 00:34:54,240
here I mean what's the harry potter of

829
00:34:58,880 --> 00:34:57,240
your bookshop well when we were talking

830
00:35:02,150 --> 00:34:58,890
about earlier demon haunted world carl

831
00:35:04,849 --> 00:35:02,160
sagan the other one tops at the moment

832
00:35:06,800 --> 00:35:04,859
would be thinking fast and slow by

833
00:35:09,950 --> 00:35:06,810
daniel kahneman that you selected

834
00:35:12,140 --> 00:35:09,960
earlier in fact i use it that for we had

835
00:35:14,359 --> 00:35:12,150
the incredible Randy who was just he was

836
00:35:16,070 --> 00:35:14,369
like kind of know he was the amazing i

837
00:35:18,170 --> 00:35:16,080
would say he should use that in exact

838
00:35:20,000 --> 00:35:18,180
amazing he's incredible and amazing and

839
00:35:21,950 --> 00:35:20,010
they actually did a magic trick for like

840
00:35:24,140 --> 00:35:21,960
three or four people and used me as the

841
00:35:25,340 --> 00:35:24,150
foil and we're buggered if we could know

842
00:35:26,840 --> 00:35:25,350
how he did it which i think is what the

843
00:35:29,270 --> 00:35:26,850
magic trips all about isn't it really it

844
00:35:31,460 --> 00:35:29,280
is he's very very good yeah i guess

845
00:35:32,810 --> 00:35:31,470
happy pick a book off the shelf and you

846
00:35:34,520 --> 00:35:32,820
knew the word in the sentence that i

847
00:35:37,550 --> 00:35:34,530
picked and as far as i know i picked

848
00:35:39,380 --> 00:35:37,560
that book freely and at random yep yeah

849
00:35:41,990 --> 00:35:39,390
so that can only confirm that he's a

850
00:35:43,250 --> 00:35:42,000
member of the Illuminati without a doubt

851
00:35:45,940 --> 00:35:43,260
well it's obvious really isn't it

852
00:35:48,320 --> 00:35:45,950
obvious actually you have got some great

853
00:35:49,670 --> 00:35:48,330
books about anomalies and conspiracies

854
00:35:52,580 --> 00:35:49,680
in here as well which i will be checking

855
00:35:55,370 --> 00:35:52,590
out before i leave yes we do probably

856
00:35:58,359 --> 00:35:55,380
the best one on those is the rana vich

857
00:36:01,820 --> 00:35:58,369
book of voodoo histories which i highly

858
00:36:05,450 --> 00:36:01,830
recommend to almost anyone to read it's

859
00:36:07,070 --> 00:36:05,460
just it demonstrates to you very clearly

860
00:36:09,890 --> 00:36:07,080
that conspiracy theories are not

861
00:36:11,630 --> 00:36:09,900
harmless and what is the strangest

862
00:36:13,790 --> 00:36:11,640
moment you have you because this would

863
00:36:16,310 --> 00:36:13,800
be a place where alternative thinkers

864
00:36:18,440 --> 00:36:16,320
would be drawn to and of all kinds and

865
00:36:20,180 --> 00:36:18,450
have you had any moments here we go look

866
00:36:21,560 --> 00:36:20,190
good i just have a book that sells

867
00:36:23,200 --> 00:36:21,570
romance novels i'm going to shop that

868
00:36:27,290 --> 00:36:23,210
just sells romance novels or something

869
00:36:30,050 --> 00:36:27,300
we do probably the weirdest there is a

870
00:36:32,840 --> 00:36:30,060
guy by the name of UFO Bob who came in

871
00:36:34,730 --> 00:36:32,850
and defied his name already yeah wearing

872
00:36:36,770 --> 00:36:34,740
a silver hat saying that he read all of

873
00:36:38,330 --> 00:36:36,780
the books on our shelves as soon as he

874
00:36:41,359 --> 00:36:38,340
walked in the door and do we have any

875
00:36:44,330 --> 00:36:41,369
cameras because CIA keeps an eye on him

876
00:36:45,530 --> 00:36:44,340
after the abduction right well he must

877
00:36:47,210 --> 00:36:45,540
be having a hard time because just about

878
00:36:48,950 --> 00:36:47,220
everybody now carries a camera around

879
00:36:51,410 --> 00:36:48,960
with them and a device that could be

880
00:36:54,349 --> 00:36:51,420
hacked into so that could be recorded 24

881
00:36:56,599 --> 00:36:54,359
7 if someone really wanted to that may

882
00:36:57,470 --> 00:36:56,609
account for his jitters you know it was

883
00:36:59,930 --> 00:36:57,480
making a bit

884
00:37:02,090 --> 00:36:59,940
because what what information did UFO

885
00:37:04,599 --> 00:37:02,100
Bob have that was of international

886
00:37:06,710 --> 00:37:04,609
importance for the CIA to want you

887
00:37:10,520 --> 00:37:06,720
didn't really say I think it was

888
00:37:13,010 --> 00:37:10,530
probably more his special gift of being

889
00:37:15,740 --> 00:37:13,020
able to see and understand and scan

890
00:37:17,690 --> 00:37:15,750
anything whatsoever in the split second

891
00:37:19,430 --> 00:37:17,700
and just get to the heart of it so he's

892
00:37:21,290 --> 00:37:19,440
a security risk in that respect no

893
00:37:22,700 --> 00:37:21,300
emotion oh that's pretty impressive I

894
00:37:25,310 --> 00:37:22,710
mean there are real things like trapwire

895
00:37:27,980 --> 00:37:25,320
to be concerned about that maybe he

896
00:37:29,690 --> 00:37:27,990
should concentrate on that true maybe I

897
00:37:31,550 --> 00:37:29,700
think you should get contact with Julian

898
00:37:33,920 --> 00:37:31,560
Assange and get together and form a

899
00:37:35,720 --> 00:37:33,930
little and a hacker group of some kind I

900
00:37:41,260 --> 00:37:35,730
can see the press conference now John

901
00:37:45,500 --> 00:37:41,270
Asajj look to bolster my my cause for a

902
00:37:47,660 --> 00:37:45,510
UFO Bob we really believe in one key

903
00:37:50,750 --> 00:37:47,670
aspect of the shop and that is that we

904
00:37:54,620 --> 00:37:50,760
need more cultural spaces on the street

905
00:37:57,260 --> 00:37:54,630
that are not necessarily dedicated

906
00:37:58,880 --> 00:37:57,270
towards sort of either hedonism or under

907
00:38:03,920 --> 00:37:58,890
inner or in just straight-out

908
00:38:06,200 --> 00:38:03,930
pleasure-seeking or silly stuff so at

909
00:38:07,609 --> 00:38:06,210
the moment most book shops don't really

910
00:38:10,099 --> 00:38:07,619
even have much of a science section

911
00:38:11,599 --> 00:38:10,109
there aren't many that people can find

912
00:38:12,800 --> 00:38:11,609
because they're actually harder to find

913
00:38:14,540 --> 00:38:12,810
now because they're having to find

914
00:38:16,220 --> 00:38:14,550
smaller and smaller spaces because of

915
00:38:17,810 --> 00:38:16,230
the increasing in rent and that's

916
00:38:19,730 --> 00:38:17,820
actually the big problem in Australia

917
00:38:21,890 --> 00:38:19,740
for bookshops it's not overseas or

918
00:38:25,010 --> 00:38:21,900
anything like that rents a huge problem

919
00:38:28,190 --> 00:38:25,020
we over out rent anyone in this this

920
00:38:30,440 --> 00:38:28,200
little planet of ours um and just as a

921
00:38:32,870 --> 00:38:30,450
point for skeptics listening everyone's

922
00:38:35,240 --> 00:38:32,880
supports but what they see to be their

923
00:38:36,560 --> 00:38:35,250
version of reason and science but you're

924
00:38:39,109 --> 00:38:36,570
actually putting your money where your

925
00:38:40,790 --> 00:38:39,119
mouth and your livelihood is it matters

926
00:38:43,490 --> 00:38:40,800
to us we didn't want to be just having

927
00:38:45,770 --> 00:38:43,500
those dinner conversations and and going

928
00:38:47,510 --> 00:38:45,780
in and have a great dinner conversation

929
00:38:50,870 --> 00:38:47,520
with people then everyone agrees and

930
00:38:52,340 --> 00:38:50,880
then nothing happens we you know we've

931
00:38:56,420 --> 00:38:52,350
got a little girl she's three years old

932
00:38:59,090 --> 00:38:56,430
and we intensely committed to him to try

933
00:39:01,340 --> 00:38:59,100
and give her a sort of an immediate

934
00:39:02,760 --> 00:39:01,350
cultural environment which is a positive

935
00:39:05,820 --> 00:39:02,770
benefit too

936
00:39:06,930 --> 00:39:05,830
so yeah we're not neither vs scientists

937
00:39:09,240 --> 00:39:06,940
or research scientist or anything like

938
00:39:11,940 --> 00:39:09,250
that week we can't do that sort of work

939
00:39:14,700 --> 00:39:11,950
but this is something we can do and I

940
00:39:17,370 --> 00:39:14,710
think it's necessary and now when we

941
00:39:19,140 --> 00:39:17,380
talk to do musicians we ask them what

942
00:39:21,210 --> 00:39:19,150
their favorite song is and that kind of

943
00:39:22,920 --> 00:39:21,220
thing but what's your favorite section

944
00:39:24,420 --> 00:39:22,930
of the bookshop what's the one where

945
00:39:25,890 --> 00:39:24,430
even when you're walking past on a busy

946
00:39:28,410 --> 00:39:25,900
day you might have a quick look and go

947
00:39:32,120 --> 00:39:28,420
I'll just have a rate of this bit it

948
00:39:36,510 --> 00:39:32,130
would be the brain sciences and because

949
00:39:39,450 --> 00:39:36,520
it's the easiest way for me to be able

950
00:39:42,060 --> 00:39:39,460
to have the discussion with someone

951
00:39:43,590 --> 00:39:42,070
about science that is an interested in

952
00:39:45,780 --> 00:39:43,600
science because everyone's got a brain

953
00:39:47,490 --> 00:39:45,790
they're interested in themselves so it's

954
00:39:51,180 --> 00:39:47,500
not a self-help section but we have

955
00:39:53,280 --> 00:39:51,190
books on how the brain works how we can

956
00:39:56,250 --> 00:39:53,290
not see things how we use confirmation

957
00:39:59,760 --> 00:39:56,260
bias how our group dynamics work based

958
00:40:02,760 --> 00:39:59,770
upon our individual biology and I find

959
00:40:04,470 --> 00:40:02,770
that that's just one of the best but it

960
00:40:06,780 --> 00:40:04,480
just gives me a sense of strength when

961
00:40:08,730 --> 00:40:06,790
I'm going in to bat for the team of

962
00:40:10,290 --> 00:40:08,740
science and reason you can go read this

963
00:40:12,480 --> 00:40:10,300
book by Robert Burton it's good i'm

964
00:40:14,880 --> 00:40:12,490
being certain it's it's brit or read

965
00:40:16,590 --> 00:40:14,890
this one by daniel kahneman on thinking

966
00:40:18,870 --> 00:40:16,600
fasteners locust it is really one of the

967
00:40:20,640 --> 00:40:18,880
best books of the past 10 years now I

968
00:40:22,440 --> 00:40:20,650
had a discussion earlier and I probably

969
00:40:24,600 --> 00:40:22,450
disappointed you in that you recommended

970
00:40:27,870 --> 00:40:24,610
demon haunted world to me Carl Sagan

971
00:40:31,050 --> 00:40:27,880
after after the Sydney conference and I

972
00:40:32,400 --> 00:40:31,060
I read it the ideas are solid I can't

973
00:40:35,640 --> 00:40:32,410
argue with near the arguments of course

974
00:40:37,860 --> 00:40:35,650
and the books great but i found it a bit

975
00:40:39,870 --> 00:40:37,870
dry and i found the book very hard-going

976
00:40:41,220 --> 00:40:39,880
now am i the only person that's ever

977
00:40:43,680 --> 00:40:41,230
said I've had a trouble with the writing

978
00:40:46,740 --> 00:40:43,690
of Carl Sagan as far as you know oh no

979
00:40:48,660 --> 00:40:46,750
no we do get em people that don't like

980
00:40:49,440 --> 00:40:48,670
him at all the current can't standing in

981
00:40:51,810 --> 00:40:49,450
fact

982
00:40:53,160 --> 00:40:51,820
that say they have a site that's usually

983
00:40:54,630 --> 00:40:53,170
a fairly strong indication that they

984
00:40:57,780 --> 00:40:54,640
don't have the science bent that they

985
00:40:59,730 --> 00:40:57,790
actually proclaimed to have but you know

986
00:41:02,130 --> 00:40:59,740
there are many different books like

987
00:41:04,020 --> 00:41:02,140
there's a big hoo-ha in the skeptic

988
00:41:06,030 --> 00:41:04,030
community at the moment about how you

989
00:41:07,589 --> 00:41:06,040
communicate don't communicate with

990
00:41:09,120 --> 00:41:07,599
aggressiveness don't communicate with

991
00:41:11,579 --> 00:41:09,130
sarcasm don't communicate like this

992
00:41:13,710 --> 00:41:11,589
don't communicate well quite frankly

993
00:41:16,470 --> 00:41:13,720
nonsense has a reason there's millions

994
00:41:18,990 --> 00:41:16,480
of writers and millions of readers there

995
00:41:22,410 --> 00:41:19,000
are millions of ways to listen and and

996
00:41:23,790 --> 00:41:22,420
so there are books that might not will

997
00:41:25,920 --> 00:41:23,800
definitely work for a lot of people that

998
00:41:28,290 --> 00:41:25,930
won't work for others and so it doesn't

999
00:41:29,670 --> 00:41:28,300
surprise me there's a fantastic

1000
00:41:34,349 --> 00:41:29,680
scientist in the states by the name of

1001
00:41:38,069 --> 00:41:34,359
Beatrice ghulam very unusual voice but

1002
00:41:40,079 --> 00:41:38,079
she is astounding in getting to the

1003
00:41:41,520 --> 00:41:40,089
heart of she's not a Berkeley hummer is

1004
00:41:44,069 --> 00:41:41,530
it which is those women that don't

1005
00:41:46,260 --> 00:41:44,079
finish it answers they got not a

1006
00:41:50,010 --> 00:41:46,270
Berkeley hung up now much much much

1007
00:41:53,190 --> 00:41:50,020
higher pitch and slightly discordant but

1008
00:41:57,270 --> 00:41:53,200
she she's extraordinary she is

1009
00:42:00,000 --> 00:41:57,280
relentless at getting to the the actual

1010
00:42:02,010 --> 00:42:00,010
data and saying what you're claiming

1011
00:42:04,710 --> 00:42:02,020
more from your data is not what your

1012
00:42:07,079 --> 00:42:04,720
data results suggest or the data itself

1013
00:42:09,660 --> 00:42:07,089
the abstract says one thing results and

1014
00:42:12,300 --> 00:42:09,670
the data say something else and her team

1015
00:42:14,250 --> 00:42:12,310
just do that or that's all they do they

1016
00:42:15,900 --> 00:42:14,260
go through those papers and how many

1017
00:42:17,550 --> 00:42:15,910
books have you got on the shelf here

1018
00:42:19,710 --> 00:42:17,560
just to give the listener the idea of

1019
00:42:23,309 --> 00:42:19,720
the size of the shop here now we're

1020
00:42:26,190 --> 00:42:23,319
getting just edging to 10,000 and that's

1021
00:42:31,010 --> 00:42:26,200
as many CDs that I have yep you guys

1022
00:42:33,550 --> 00:42:31,020
understand yet and and of that about

1023
00:42:37,330 --> 00:42:33,560
5,000 of science books

1024
00:42:39,460 --> 00:42:37,340
now what is the one book that is

1025
00:42:41,440 --> 00:42:39,470
painfully absent on your shelf what is

1026
00:42:42,910 --> 00:42:41,450
the book that hasn't been written or the

1027
00:42:44,320 --> 00:42:42,920
book you would like to have in your shop

1028
00:42:46,150 --> 00:42:44,330
that's absolutely go gee I wish we had a

1029
00:42:47,920 --> 00:42:46,160
book about X or one that dealt with a

1030
00:42:49,540 --> 00:42:47,930
certain topic is that one that you wish

1031
00:42:51,880 --> 00:42:49,550
was here that maybe hasn't even been

1032
00:42:54,100 --> 00:42:51,890
written yet there's two that immediately

1033
00:42:55,720 --> 00:42:54,110
come to mind one is an Australian

1034
00:42:59,230 --> 00:42:55,730
version of the geek men of history I

1035
00:43:04,150 --> 00:42:59,240
think that needs to be done and secondly

1036
00:43:07,570 --> 00:43:04,160
I want a better book on vaccines for the

1037
00:43:09,550 --> 00:43:07,580
general public I want it to be one of

1038
00:43:11,260 --> 00:43:09,560
them that's less scientific you mean I'd

1039
00:43:13,960 --> 00:43:11,270
like like like one that's basically

1040
00:43:15,790 --> 00:43:13,970
using more normal tova than what your

1041
00:43:17,140 --> 00:43:15,800
terminology that's easy to understand is

1042
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:17,150
that what you mean more can sear more

1043
00:43:21,910 --> 00:43:18,890
consumer-friendly you know that most of

1044
00:43:25,510 --> 00:43:21,920
the ones that we have that are of good

1045
00:43:28,510 --> 00:43:25,520
value also employ a few scare tactics

1046
00:43:30,070 --> 00:43:28,520
and I don't like those in that that they

1047
00:43:31,870 --> 00:43:30,080
can be useful but they're mostly useful

1048
00:43:35,440 --> 00:43:31,880
for people who already agree with the

1049
00:43:37,450 --> 00:43:35,450
subject matter the ones that we really

1050
00:43:39,100 --> 00:43:37,460
need are the ones with the nice family

1051
00:43:40,900 --> 00:43:39,110
planning type images on the front with

1052
00:43:43,620 --> 00:43:40,910
the doctors and the nurses and that

1053
00:43:48,100 --> 00:43:43,630
looks all nice and happy and carefree

1054
00:43:49,810 --> 00:43:48,110
but with really unthreatening language

1055
00:43:51,670 --> 00:43:49,820
in in the middle because the people who

1056
00:43:54,490 --> 00:43:51,680
are getting this information like myself

1057
00:43:56,650 --> 00:43:54,500
and my partner Kirsty who run the shop

1058
00:43:59,380 --> 00:43:56,660
you know when we were vaccinating our

1059
00:44:01,450 --> 00:43:59,390
daughter and it hurts them and they cry

1060
00:44:04,990 --> 00:44:01,460
their heads off and you as a parent you

1061
00:44:08,170 --> 00:44:05,000
sort of hate doing that to them so you

1062
00:44:10,210 --> 00:44:08,180
that there are parents out there who get

1063
00:44:12,550 --> 00:44:10,220
a lot of anxiety over doing that and we

1064
00:44:14,200 --> 00:44:12,560
want to deal with those they need to be

1065
00:44:18,370 --> 00:44:14,210
communicated to I think in a fairly

1066
00:44:20,860 --> 00:44:18,380
softly softly way no you or two ago I

1067
00:44:23,440 --> 00:44:20,870
approached a publisher's agent and I

1068
00:44:26,200 --> 00:44:23,450
pitched to them an idea to do a history

1069
00:44:28,720 --> 00:44:26,210
an electronic book cd-rom or whatever

1070
00:44:30,100 --> 00:44:28,730
that would be history of the dance

1071
00:44:31,510 --> 00:44:30,110
parties that went on at the Horde in

1072
00:44:33,850 --> 00:44:31,520
davillon in the late 80s Early 90s

1073
00:44:35,650 --> 00:44:33,860
photographs lot make it a big coffee

1074
00:44:37,360 --> 00:44:35,660
table book make it a history of

1075
00:44:38,740 --> 00:44:37,370
something at the moment is only an oral

1076
00:44:40,690 --> 00:44:38,750
history there is there's other stuff

1077
00:44:42,610 --> 00:44:40,700
around but it's scattered and she just

1078
00:44:44,740 --> 00:44:42,620
said that no one would buy that book and

1079
00:44:47,080 --> 00:44:44,750
the market is very limited in in perhaps

1080
00:44:48,820 --> 00:44:47,090
I could turn it into a fiction book with

1081
00:44:51,100 --> 00:44:48,830
the fable at the end that showed that

1082
00:44:53,350 --> 00:44:51,110
all that drug taking in fun had had a

1083
00:44:55,900 --> 00:44:53,360
had a sort of a karmic recourse on the

1084
00:44:57,970 --> 00:44:55,910
person involved and she said could you

1085
00:45:00,910 --> 00:44:57,980
take the sex and drugs out of it and I

1086
00:45:02,860 --> 00:45:00,920
thought well III know why people went

1087
00:45:05,110 --> 00:45:02,870
there number one was not the music and

1088
00:45:08,410 --> 00:45:05,120
that that yeah that made me think that

1089
00:45:09,730 --> 00:45:08,420
you know that level of sort of economic

1090
00:45:11,710 --> 00:45:09,740
censorship to a certain extent do you

1091
00:45:13,840 --> 00:45:11,720
think anyone would want a book of such a

1092
00:45:15,670 --> 00:45:13,850
limited history do you think there would

1093
00:45:17,140 --> 00:45:15,680
be any market for that as someone who

1094
00:45:18,670 --> 00:45:17,150
actually sells books I mean you know is

1095
00:45:20,230 --> 00:45:18,680
that the kind of history in Australia

1096
00:45:22,450 --> 00:45:20,240
anymore anyone even wants covered to

1097
00:45:26,200 --> 00:45:22,460
that degree I'd talk to Melbourne books

1098
00:45:28,840 --> 00:45:26,210
and David at Melbourne books they do

1099
00:45:30,820 --> 00:45:28,850
books precisely like that yeah that's

1100
00:45:32,860 --> 00:45:30,830
why I talked to on that but there will

1101
00:45:34,960 --> 00:45:32,870
be smaller publishers publishers with

1102
00:45:37,720 --> 00:45:34,970
their fingers in the community as

1103
00:45:40,600 --> 00:45:37,730
opposed to the big ones who have stumps

1104
00:45:42,250 --> 00:45:40,610
in the community so yeah definitely am

1105
00:45:43,690 --> 00:45:42,260
melbourne books is the first when it

1106
00:45:46,080 --> 00:45:43,700
comes to mind because I've done similar

1107
00:45:48,100 --> 00:45:46,090
things what do you like with them

1108
00:45:49,720 --> 00:45:48,110
authors that come in here doing book

1109
00:45:52,900 --> 00:45:49,730
signings and their egos it's a little

1110
00:45:54,910 --> 00:45:52,910
bit like rock-star sometimes as it can

1111
00:45:57,460 --> 00:45:54,920
be but it usually isn't most authors are

1112
00:45:59,380 --> 00:45:57,470
intensely humble and look long may you

1113
00:46:00,820 --> 00:45:59,390
reign here now for people who want to

1114
00:46:02,730 --> 00:46:00,830
visit you online and see what you got

1115
00:46:04,780 --> 00:46:02,740
available where can we find you we're at

1116
00:46:06,610 --> 00:46:04,790
197 to two or three little lonsdale

1117
00:46:07,920 --> 00:46:06,620
street and we're right next to the state

1118
00:46:09,599 --> 00:46:07,930
library or about halfway between

1119
00:46:11,609 --> 00:46:09,609
swanston and Russell's

1120
00:46:13,140 --> 00:46:11,619
and your website the work we find you

1121
00:46:14,700 --> 00:46:13,150
online where you have friendly service

1122
00:46:15,960 --> 00:46:14,710
I've dropped you a line there you got

1123
00:46:18,900 --> 00:46:15,970
right back to me and on Twitter as well

1124
00:46:23,069 --> 00:46:18,910
you don't muck about some time I do get

1125
00:46:28,259 --> 00:46:23,079
behind sometimes but yeah owww beggin

1126
00:46:29,759 --> 00:46:28,269
books com of course it's day two here

1127
00:46:31,140 --> 00:46:29,769
and we're almost into the morning tea

1128
00:46:33,599 --> 00:46:31,150
break but I think it's a good chance to

1129
00:46:35,489 --> 00:46:33,609
have a stop by the ambiguous or and see

1130
00:46:37,710 --> 00:46:35,499
what's really been moving what has been

1131
00:46:39,749 --> 00:46:37,720
the favourite book this time around flim

1132
00:46:41,670 --> 00:46:39,759
plan of cool well I would have thought

1133
00:46:43,890 --> 00:46:41,680
Randy fans here will already have that

1134
00:46:45,440 --> 00:46:43,900
and what was this still a few that don't

1135
00:46:47,819 --> 00:46:45,450
and there were actually some people who

1136
00:46:50,640 --> 00:46:47,829
do have his book but wanted to get it

1137
00:46:51,989 --> 00:46:50,650
signed so and has it been a rush for any

1138
00:46:53,460 --> 00:46:51,999
book you haven't gone there's anyone

1139
00:46:56,279 --> 00:46:53,470
been looking for return to the Stars

1140
00:46:58,140 --> 00:46:56,289
erich von daniken for example no no they

1141
00:47:00,210 --> 00:46:58,150
they have we have had a few questions

1142
00:47:02,279 --> 00:47:00,220
asked about some books for kids but

1143
00:47:04,259 --> 00:47:02,289
that's it I've got the really really big

1144
00:47:05,729 --> 00:47:04,269
questions book here for kids the one

1145
00:47:07,170 --> 00:47:05,739
i've got about life the universe and

1146
00:47:09,200 --> 00:47:07,180
everything and the one about religions

1147
00:47:11,670 --> 00:47:09,210
it's been good feedback about that book

1148
00:47:13,259 --> 00:47:11,680
well not from the people here but we get

1149
00:47:16,019 --> 00:47:13,269
a lot of feedback from that through the

1150
00:47:17,519 --> 00:47:16,029
shop it's it's a very good book now what

1151
00:47:19,079 --> 00:47:17,529
about the controversial demon haunted

1152
00:47:20,670 --> 00:47:19,089
world that i found a little bit dry

1153
00:47:22,559 --> 00:47:20,680
which you recommended for me but I've

1154
00:47:25,769 --> 00:47:22,569
got to say i'm glad i read it has that

1155
00:47:28,349 --> 00:47:25,779
been moving that always goes well always

1156
00:47:31,499 --> 00:47:28,359
and is there been a surprise seller this

1157
00:47:33,079 --> 00:47:31,509
time around no big surprises i guess

1158
00:47:36,569 --> 00:47:33,089
we're moving a few more the flying

1159
00:47:39,299 --> 00:47:36,579
spaghetti monster them than we expected

1160
00:47:40,650 --> 00:47:39,309
so the flying spaghetti monster within

1161
00:47:43,979 --> 00:47:40,660
the breakout favorite this time around

1162
00:47:46,470 --> 00:47:43,989
possibly end bad farmer ipad farmer yes

1163
00:47:48,089 --> 00:47:46,480
actually i will hope to see Ben Goldacre

1164
00:47:51,089 --> 00:47:48,099
once because after reading the book i

1165
00:47:52,859 --> 00:47:51,099
want to see him perform that he would be

1166
00:47:54,660 --> 00:47:52,869
very good out here i'd like to see him

1167
00:47:56,670 --> 00:47:54,670
come out a lot more often than he does

1168
00:47:59,069 --> 00:47:56,680
now we have had a couple of people come

1169
00:48:01,470 --> 00:47:59,079
up with to show us how they're using

1170
00:48:02,609 --> 00:48:01,480
Kindles just to show us that hey I've

1171
00:48:05,460 --> 00:48:02,619
got this book on the kindle isn't it

1172
00:48:25,290 --> 00:48:05,470
great no you must go yeah that's really

1173
00:48:30,460 --> 00:48:28,330
this is desiree shell hosted skeptically

1174
00:48:32,950 --> 00:48:30,470
speaking check out our website at

1175
00:48:36,820 --> 00:48:32,960
skeptically speaking calm and listen to

1176
00:48:40,600 --> 00:48:36,830
us live on CJ sr 88.5 FM in Edmonton

1177
00:48:52,680 --> 00:48:40,610
Alberta Canada I now return you to the

1178
00:48:57,130 --> 00:48:55,600
richard another fantastic show you know

1179
00:49:00,310 --> 00:48:57,140
I like doing the skeptic zone when we

1180
00:49:02,380 --> 00:49:00,320
have an audience hello audience there

1181
00:49:04,180 --> 00:49:02,390
you go and it's extra special people

1182
00:49:07,240 --> 00:49:04,190
doing intros and outros this is right to

1183
00:49:10,030 --> 00:49:07,250
be here in wacky central you've never

1184
00:49:11,380 --> 00:49:10,040
really been in the skeptics own studio

1185
00:49:15,580 --> 00:49:11,390
have us i think the term you're looking

1186
00:49:18,520 --> 00:49:15,590
for is allowed that's true anyway we

1187
00:49:20,320 --> 00:49:18,530
better get on now start working on our

1188
00:49:21,850 --> 00:49:20,330
secret project all the people here for

1189
00:49:24,700 --> 00:49:21,860
that I've got a secret project to

1190
00:49:26,560 --> 00:49:24,710
announce two more you know when we did

1191
00:49:28,150 --> 00:49:26,570
tan Las Vegas and all the listings was

1192
00:49:29,650 --> 00:49:28,160
so good to put in to have me come over

1193
00:49:31,570 --> 00:49:29,660
there was great yeah yeah yeahs had a

1194
00:49:33,760 --> 00:49:31,580
great time there well as well as doing

1195
00:49:35,710 --> 00:49:33,770
the 110 interviews for the skeptic zone

1196
00:49:38,140 --> 00:49:35,720
of that 110 when I was interviewing

1197
00:49:39,880 --> 00:49:38,150
people 50 the people I asked off you'd

1198
00:49:41,230 --> 00:49:39,890
like a song what would it be most

1199
00:49:43,060 --> 00:49:41,240
skeptics completely stumped because

1200
00:49:45,790 --> 00:49:43,070
music is not something in talk about

1201
00:49:48,190 --> 00:49:45,800
much of a skeptic convention so I've got

1202
00:49:52,120 --> 00:49:48,200
two episodes coming up of the music of

1203
00:49:53,440 --> 00:49:52,130
Tam Las Vegas 2012 leaned 18 songs is in

1204
00:49:55,090 --> 00:49:53,450
part one and probably about the same

1205
00:49:57,610 --> 00:49:55,100
much in part two and one thing about

1206
00:49:59,350 --> 00:49:57,620
skeptics eclectic taste in music we've

1207
00:50:02,320 --> 00:49:59,360
got stuff with the beatles Brian Setzer

1208
00:50:04,930 --> 00:50:02,330
kiss some blue öyster cult Stevie Ray

1209
00:50:07,180 --> 00:50:04,940
Vaughan opera and a bit of music from

1210
00:50:08,500 --> 00:50:07,190
Sherlock and if you know these people

1211
00:50:10,090 --> 00:50:08,510
time they get him in the show Kerry pop

1212
00:50:11,500 --> 00:50:10,100
he's going to be on the show Aaron with

1213
00:50:14,050 --> 00:50:11,510
the Fez is going to be on the show Bob's

1214
00:50:15,730 --> 00:50:14,060
going to be on the show and lovely lady

1215
00:50:18,070 --> 00:50:15,740
from doubtful news she's also on there

1216
00:50:20,050 --> 00:50:18,080
as well Wow Sharon yes that's what

1217
00:50:22,660 --> 00:50:20,060
Lynard so that that's coming out next

1218
00:50:24,070 --> 00:50:22,670
week at Manor combo Aug no don't check

1219
00:50:25,300 --> 00:50:24,080
that out anyway don't like the songs in

1220
00:50:26,710 --> 00:50:25,310
the show you can't blame me because it's

1221
00:50:29,380 --> 00:50:26,720
at the people asking for I tell what

1222
00:50:31,630 --> 00:50:29,390
Stefan you should have been there cam to

1223
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:31,640
see may not see main idea we saw this

1224
00:50:35,710 --> 00:50:34,130
reverb in a gold jacket what was that

1225
00:50:36,760 --> 00:50:35,720
all that was may not rushing off to a

1226
00:50:38,230 --> 00:50:36,770
different interview it was just

1227
00:50:40,690 --> 00:50:38,240
something incredible wish I'd be never

1228
00:50:42,760 --> 00:50:40,700
well of the 110 interview 50 of them had

1229
00:50:44,440 --> 00:50:42,770
the music in it and I've had to wrap

1230
00:50:46,840 --> 00:50:44,450
through four and a half hours of

1231
00:50:48,160 --> 00:50:46,850
interviews to find by the two hours for

1232
00:50:49,660 --> 00:50:48,170
the show but it's been well worth and

1233
00:50:52,690 --> 00:50:49,670
everyone said skirts like going there

1234
00:50:54,490 --> 00:50:52,700
again mmm it's like being there again I

1235
00:50:56,890 --> 00:50:54,500
should figure writing writing a new song

1236
00:50:58,780 --> 00:50:56,900
now with us because skeptic rhymes with

1237
00:51:00,020 --> 00:50:58,790
eclectic thing only that could be a good

1238
00:51:02,930 --> 00:51:00,030
song it could be

1239
00:51:05,630 --> 00:51:02,940
yeah it could be we're in a studio right

1240
00:51:07,220 --> 00:51:05,640
now so I should get we should get it out

1241
00:51:08,930 --> 00:51:07,230
my new Weaver stick to stick to the I

1242
00:51:10,610 --> 00:51:08,940
game plan here we got to get this thing

1243
00:51:13,010 --> 00:51:10,620
out really the secret project let's get

1244
00:51:14,720 --> 00:51:13,020
on without secret project folks secret

1245
00:51:17,360 --> 00:51:14,730
projects coming soon and all I can say

1246
00:51:21,380 --> 00:51:17,370
at the moment is watch this space and

1247
00:51:27,050 --> 00:51:21,390
look out for solar flares what does that

1248
00:51:31,730 --> 00:51:27,060
mean you've been listening to the

1249
00:51:35,570 --> 00:51:31,740
skeptic zone visit our website at www